Ep96 • Every trail Runner Should Run this Race at least once.
Cirque Series is a brilliant mountain race with distances between 6 and 9 miles. But don't be fooled ultrarunners. Cirque races are hard as hell, straight up the gut of big mountains and right back down.
The starting line is a party.
The finish line is a party.
In this episode I welcome the founder and race director, Julian Carr.
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In this conversation, Josh and Julian discuss the evolution of ultra trail running, focusing on the Cirque Series and its unique approach to inclusivity and race production.
They explore the importance of creating a fun and engaging atmosphere at races, overcoming skepticism from the traditional trail running community, and the significance of high production value in enhancing the overall experience for runners.
In this conversation, Julian discusses the evolution of trail running events, emphasizing the importance of a rewarding experience for participants. He reflects on the challenges of creating a unique atmosphere that transcends traditional trail running, while also addressing the scalability of his event series and the significance of community engagement and sponsorship.
The discussion highlights the cultural movement of trail running in the U.S. and the potential for storytelling to enhance the experience for both elite and amateur runners.
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Josh (00:00.7)
Well, we mostly focus on ultra trail, that's just because that's where my obsession has been for so long. Being on the mountains, especially the mountains of Utah, running, trying to run a hundred miles has always, you know, kind of been where my heart is at. But I, my heart is also in Salt Lake city. And that's where I learned to love the mountains coming from West Texas where there was no mountains. And in all my years of training, would, you know, I would run speed goat and then I'd run Kachina Mosa and all these really iconic Utah races.
And then all of a sudden one year this this eight mile thing popped up and it was just straight up the gut of Snowbird. And I don't know if I did it year one or two or three or something like that. I just know that I've been paying attention and it was super cool. And those were well loved trails. And I was the Cirque Series and Julian Carr, who's my guest today, was putting those putting those races on. And at the time it was amazing. And there was a ton of energy there. And it starts where Speedgoat starts. It's a really great like fitness test.
for Speed Goat or if it's post Speed Goat or whatever, but it's amazing and it's iconic. There's a ton of energy and it just keeps getting bigger. I don't know how it keeps getting bigger, but before we get into that any further, Julian, thanks for joining me today. I'm glad you're with me.
Julian (01:14.454)
Yeah, thanks man. Appreciate the intro. But yeah, excited to chat with you. Thank you.
Josh (01:21.53)
Yeah, yeah. So let's let's start with Cirque Series. I mean, I remember following it once I got it once I ran it and I was super stoked on it. And I saw you were doing some international stuff. You had like Cirque Series over in Europe and then back into maybe it went back to just stateside. Like what what kind of give the high level of what it what it has been? What is what is Cirque Series? How did it come to be like? Just kind of hit all those points.
Julian (01:46.606)
Sure. You know, I have a ski background and I'm used to doing probably half of my days in the winter time touring, you know, and then the other half of my days I'm at a resort. And when you're out touring, you know, typically you're going pretty direct path to a summit or to some kind of cool high alpine terrain to ski it. And obviously to avoid
avalanche terrain, you're going straight up ridges for the most part. So it's always usually, you know, a more direct route than most trail run outings. But that's kind of what I took with me, that perspective on finding just the most direct path to a summit. And in the summer times, I got really into hiking Mount Olympus in Salt Lake. And anyone that obviously has hiked Mount Olympus knows it's a bit of a butt kicker. It's like...
five mile round trip with 4,000 vert. So it's definitely straight up as well. And I got so into it, it got in good shape and my skiing benefited from it. And I just thought it was a great adventure. thought Mount Olympus is pretty dynamic. It felt like it was kind of like a, know, it felt like a day skiing kind of, it was like a fun adventure. There was so many interesting little pockets.
on Mount Olympus that had a story to tell. didn't feel like a mono experience at all. The views were incredible. Took a lot of agility and strength to get back down once you obviously got your butt kicked on the way up. And I kind of looked into the trail run race scene at the time, not having any clue about anything. I just thought I'd find a bunch of races that were like hiking up Mount Olympus in Utah. And I was pretty shocked that I just didn't find anything, not only in Utah, but anywhere, nowhere.
Josh (03:37.156)
Right.
Julian (03:40.81)
the only thing I could find was, Mount marathon up in Seward AK, which is like they're cool. And that's been going on for like 80 years. It's like a three mile race with 3000 vert. so I'm like, well, they got it figured out, but I was just kind of shocked that I couldn't find it in the lower 48. So that was my original inspiration was like, man, I should make a race up Mount Olympus. You know,
Josh (03:48.107)
sure. Super iconic. Yeah.
Josh (04:08.796)
Hmm.
Julian (04:08.898)
five, six miles of 4,000 vert and you summit Mount Olympus. And that was just kind of the back of my head for a few years. And that's kind of where it all came from. And it just kind of mirrored what I was used to doing in the mountains anyway, which is finding kind of a direct intuitive path to the summit. And it's been a cool journey, man. Like what a fun project. And I think the vision I've always had for them, that's kind of where we're at now.
There's just so many cool things going on with them, but that's kind of, you know, I could go on and on and give you the full, full origin story, but that's kind of where the first inspiration came from.
Josh (04:44.806)
Yeah.
I mean, it's so brilliant. The model, across all the races that I see that you do, like you just said, what it has in common is they all go straight up and it's huge gain in a short amount of miles. got some, to me, it's got some Red Bull vibe to it where it's like this intensity, but it's also got this massively, for lack of a better word, inclusiveness to it.
on your side, it's ages six to like 84 or something like that have run these races. And I mean, they are huge. So you've got this really cool attitude about it. mean, brilliant branding and aesthetic that you've put around it. But everybody's doing it. And I remember when I started to see, at least I was started to pay attention and I saw elites doing it. But at the same time, I'm not fast, but man, just to be out there and doing something that's so gratifying, I think it was around eight miles.
Julian (05:31.564)
Yeah.
Josh (05:43.326)
It was just, it's, it's every ultra runner should do it. That's, mean, that's, that's my main pitch here is that every ultra runner should do this. If you're running a hundred miles, you're probably in shape and this, they're so much fun.
Julian (05:56.098)
Well, thanks, man. I appreciate it. think I've always just really tried to be a humble person. Like I've been a professional skier for a long time and I've always found a way to connect with any skill level. And really I like skiing groomers, greens. Like I just love it all. I love seeing people have a good time. I'm a fan of good athletics and you know, I don't really like the elitist.
Josh (06:18.03)
Mm. Mm.
Julian (06:23.926)
Mentality. don't like gatekeepers. I've never liked that at all. and so creating the races, that was just really important. was like, want everyone to feel seen. I want everyone to feel welcome. And at the end of the day, we're in nature. We're nature's guest. We're, out there, having our own experience, pushing ourselves and have a very cool, intimate relationship with nature and to gatekeeper.
to have any kind of vibe that isn't just all inclusive to me, it just isn't something I'm interested in, you So that was something that we've always came out of the gates with and we've stuck to it. And it's been really fun to see all walks of life. Like literally seeing a grandson, a dad and a grandpa lined up in the start gate next to like some of the best professional runners on the planet and for, you know.
Josh (07:12.091)
Yeah.
You
Julian (07:19.852)
The race to make sense for that big of a spectrum is a pretty special environment.
Josh (07:26.13)
Yeah, because it's hard. Like it's extremely hard. it's it's it makes perfect sense the way you just say it's like you're a know, elite skier X Games gold medal winner. So maybe that's how you think when you put the course together. But then on the other end that you're anti gatekeeping anybody can do it. So it's not you didn't go easy on us, but you welcomed us all. And I think that's pretty freaking cool.
Julian (07:51.52)
No, I mean, that's what's so fun about it is people see the digestible kind of low mileage and they just assume it's gonna be a walk in the park. And obviously anyone that does our races know you absolutely get your butt kicked for a couple hours and then you're done. And then you can hang out. You're not ruined. You don't need to recover forever. You can high five.
Josh (08:05.275)
Yeah.
Josh (08:15.314)
Ha
Julian (08:18.232)
There's, you know, that the, for me, it's skiing again. It's like, you want to celebrate your adventure. You want to talk about the experience you just had. You want to high five. want to celebrate with your friends. You want to meet friends. And, so having that kind of environment when the race is over, it's not so long of a race that it takes five to 24 hours to finish. that, that from the logistics side, you just can't have that atmosphere sometimes for some of the longer races, which is fine.
Josh (08:18.491)
Yeah.
Josh (08:23.835)
Mmm.
Dude.
Josh (08:41.383)
Yeah.
Julian (08:46.914)
Like I have a lot of respect for ultra length races, even the production and obviously the physical ability to do them. ours is just a different, formula and part of that formula is having that really fun environment and the lower mileage races. They are super hard, but you're not ruined. You know, you're not like, you know, getting done and can't talk like you can totally recover and hang out and high five and make it just a fun day.
Josh (08:51.557)
Yeah.
Josh (09:14.94)
Yeah.
Josh (09:18.266)
Yeah. And to some degree, I mean, the, the passion to run a hundred miles is unique within a niche. Like ultra running is unique. And then you're talking a hundred miles, which is niche within that niche and this eight mile or thing. Like you're saying, man, you could identify it eight weeks in advance and maybe you're suffering, you're to be sore, but you can see it on the calendar and then sign up if it's not sold out and you can go do it. And I've heard so many brands talk about
aligning with skateboard culture lately, but I have not heard this the way that you're talking about aligning ultra, not ultra, but trail running. think of ultra as intense, not as distance with when I think about Cirque and aligning that with ski culture and the opportunity for a prey, prey running and all this sort of stuff. It's just so brilliant.
Julian (10:07.106)
Well, thanks. think, you know, it's, special places being in the high Alpine is, is really powerful. and I luckily have a career and a lot of experience in my life being in those high Alpine places. And to put together these courses that I know will test the limits of even, you know, the best mountain runners, but still be approachable and something I know.
beginners can do is just a fun way for me to just kind of give back to the outdoor community. and when we get to be in these high Alpine places without having to worry about avalanches, it's a, such a different way for me to be up there because usually it's just me and a very small group of people, trying to put the ski production together and safety is paramount. That's like always top of mind and how we make all of our decisions. So to suddenly be up in these same Alpine.
places and know kind of how all the ridges connect, how it all makes sense, what mileage it all is, and just kind of the experience as a whole and just knowing that a beginner can wrap their head around it physically and knock it out in a day. For me on the production side, it's just so fun. But when the race is over and you're down on the finish line area and just seeing all these hundreds of people just beaming with
Josh (11:28.71)
Yeah.
Julian (11:36.95)
genuine happiness. Pretty motivating, you know, to like put all the effort into producing good events. Because I see so many people that kind of they didn't know how competent they were. They didn't know the first thing about how to even approach having an experience like that. And it's pretty wild to have people
Josh (11:38.769)
Yes.
Josh (11:54.386)
Mmm.
Josh (11:58.065)
Yeah.
Julian (12:00.526)
genuinely concerned if they're going to even be able to finish or if they can get a helicopter ride out if they can't make it. And then obviously they do quite well. You know, they finished middle of the pack or, know, and they, and suddenly I see a bit more races. Suddenly I see them out on the trails. Suddenly I see them trying to speed goat and they graduate. And this is kind of like their stepping stone and their intro to now that trail running is a big part of their life. to see.
Josh (12:06.42)
Ha ha ha.
Yeah.
Josh (12:21.021)
Yeah. Yeah.
Julian (12:28.78)
That kind of trajectory and still being a part of the greater kind of trail run industry kind of spectrum. it's pretty special. So we're, very. Just like grateful and honored to be in that kind of position that we're kind of that, that ramp for a lot of people to get into the sport. And it's a booming sport because it's powerful. Like I said, to be in those places, it's very good for you mentally, physically, spiritually.
Josh (12:38.236)
Yeah.
Josh (12:57.114)
Yeah, agreed. Yeah.
Julian (12:58.88)
everything. So to see people have so much happiness and to see them make TrailRunning a part of their lives and know that CirqueSeries is a part of that story for them personally is pretty cool.
Josh (13:11.206)
You filled a really nice gap because so much in trail. maybe you could find, I mean, back in the day of the North Face endurance challenges, you could find a really solid half marathon on the trail. you know, to be able to do something shorter than a half marathon is, you know, just another way. Like I'm, I'm with you. I couldn't have said it better myself. So, so opposed to gatekeeping.
And to see then, you know, sometimes with those of us who make it through an entry into a gate, you know, like the goal is like once we're in, can we somehow sabotage the gate, tear it down and make sure that everybody can just run in? I feel like an eight mile or six to eight mile race is just another way of making it accessible to everybody. So in in year one, like right now you're pretty, you know, the way that you talk about it is so clear and the vision is so clear and obvious. Year one, did you was it this clear and obvious or was it did you just put on a race and you're looking to have a have a good day out?
Julian (14:05.582)
No, this is pretty much the way I've spoke about our races ever since year one. Yeah, it's always been the vision. And I think, you my experience as a professional skier, I played the role as a producer quite often in a lot of the projects we were doing. And I had about 12 years experience of running a clothing company.
that obviously you're familiar with, used to set up next to each other, some of the events in Salt Lake, but it was called discrete. So I kind of combined my skillsets with marketing and production and the nuts and bolts of running a company. So I kind of just saw exactly how to do it. I saw the exact. Event I wanted it to be. I believed in, the challenge I believed in the atmosphere we could build. and just have been.
pushing it and articulating it for, you this is to be our 10th season. And I feel like our races are, you know, over the last few years, kind of where I've always envisioned them being. So it was, was a big narrative to push into the industry. Cause obviously what I ran into a lot the first year or two were a lot of veteran trail runner types that had been doing a lot of trail runs their whole race and being like, Hey,
we see what you're trying to do, it's not going to work. They're too short. Like this is never going to work. So to hear a lot of like savvy veteran, respected, hardy mountain people in the trail run scene, they'd be telling me that right out of the gate for me to just push through. I was already kind of used to that from my skiing career. You hear a lot of nos when you're trying to build up a career, when you're trying to create a company, you run into all kinds of obstacles. So luckily I had some very tough skin and
Josh (15:47.322)
Yeah. Yeah.
Julian (15:57.11)
It just gave me more motivation to believe even more what we were trying to build. So it's been a fun journey to get where we are, but yeah, I've been kind of saying these same things ever since year one.
Josh (16:10.758)
Yeah. Have you seen, you know, other people, I mean, I had, I'm very much into the scene. I haven't seen anybody really still going after that six to eight mile range as like the marquee length. Like I have a 10 K at the event that I put on in the foothills of Salt Lake, but my marquee events, 50 K your marquee event is this distance. I haven't seen much of that.
Julian (16:32.054)
No, I mean, it's a
To me, it's like so elementary. I've always loved the quote, the best ideas are the most obvious. and there has been a few times every year where, you know, since we're a series and we have, you know, six or seven races a year, there's just a lot of moving pieces. Cause you know, as you know, it's producing these kinds of events. even if you have a static venue, that's the same each year, it's still a considerable amount of logistics. So.
Josh (16:52.539)
Mm-hmm.
Julian (17:06.604)
Suddenly when you have six or seven races and staff and sponsors and safety and the runners and all the personalities and logistics, you know, that you need to navigate every once in while, I'll be out marking a course, you know, on my phone, doing all kinds of emails and, know, I'll just kind of chuckle to myself because I'll be like, man, if anyone wants to.
Josh (17:12.54)
Mmm.
Julian (17:30.606)
check all the, dot all the I's and cross all the T's the way that we do and what it takes to put on races that are this fun and these types of environments, like be my guest. So I think that's just why it's, it's challenging. It takes a lot of work and a ton of focus and it's a dangerous place to be. Like the high Alpine is a pretty raw and rugged and wild dangerous place. And I think luckily I have my experience.
Josh (17:40.348)
Yeah.
You
Yeah.
Julian (18:01.105)
of knowing those places quite well. and found a way that, I like working 100, a hundred hours a week on race weeks. Like it's just part of the fun. I said, to see everyone having a good time, but, I've seen a few people pop up and try, but I thought maybe their course design lacked or their production value lacked. Like just to put it all together, is a lot of intentional and deliberate.
Josh (18:16.134)
Yeah.
Julian (18:31.554)
production value, you
Josh (18:33.618)
Yes. Yeah, I mean, that's the best way to put it. When we talk about races a lot here, it's the, you you mark the course, a well-marked course is mission critical, obviously, but to some people, that's the standard, like making sure that the course is just marked well. then like, Javelin 100 was just this last weekend. And one of the things that they do well is they put on a party at the start and finish line and, and, you know, the runners pass it four times before finishing it on the fifth loop.
For you, it's like it's a party at the start, it's a party at the finish. Fortunately, it's not as many, it's not, you know, 24 hours in between, but there's a strong hospitality element to it that is just as memorable as the climb. Like you say, the, the Opry run piece is just as memorable, just as worth it as the run itself.
Julian (19:19.734)
Yeah, it's, so to rewind a little bit, so when I got way into hiking Mount Olympus, I actually got invited to go do a trail run race down in Moab. and it was my good friend's wife and, she was like, Hey, so you're always trail running on Mount Olympus. She's like, come and do this trail run race. And I'm like, well,
I'm not, I mean, is there any elevation gain? She's like, no, not really. You know, it's Moab. I'm like, you know, I'm probably good. And she's like, well, I signed you up. Just come and hang out. We're going to camp and just do the race. I'm like, all right, fine. So go down there, meet up with my buddy. And there's a group of friends. And obviously we stay up and have a couple beers and not taking the race all too seriously, but get up the next morning. So beautiful. and.
Josh (20:16.53)
Yeah.
Julian (20:19.072)
just no production value, zero. But the race, the course was so beautiful. And I finished the race and there was like four or 500 people in this race paying like 70, 80 bucks. And, you know, just a very kind of what you'd expect, average t-shirt was like what you were provided for the signup. then at the time is when I was running Olympus, like five, six days a week, I was in the best shape I've ever been in.
Josh (20:24.763)
Right.
Josh (20:40.421)
Yep.
Julian (20:48.162)
I got second in the race, which I was like, cool. I have like a whole off season career I can pursue here. and so we finished the race. We're the only car that like backs up opens the tailgate and like, kind of just roots people through the finish line. There was no atmosphere, there was no production. And, I was just like, man, seeing all these interesting young people crossing the finish line and just kind of waiting for their friends and leaving.
Josh (20:48.326)
huh.
Julian (21:17.998)
And I'm like, so weird that there's no production value here. And I got a $10 gift certificate to the local coffee shop for getting second. So I was like, huh, look at the other guys that were producing the event. I'm like, good for them. They just, you know, pocketed 30 or 40 grand because they certainly didn't spend much on this production, you know? But I'm like, unfortunately, not all these people are going to come back because there's just no atmosphere. You know, it was a beautiful race, but that's it.
Josh (21:44.742)
Hmm. Yep.
Julian (21:48.078)
And then a couple of weeks later, I was an athlete for GoPro at the time and they, know, GoPro mountain games and they're like, Hey, come and hang out. there's any events you want to do, let us know. And so I was like, okay, cool. I'll go hang out. And I noticed they had a 15 K trail run. I'm like, sweet. Another race I can go podium in. Right. And so I go there and it was the exact opposite.
Josh (22:07.324)
Mm.
Josh (22:12.87)
Yeah.
Julian (22:18.38)
The production value was through the roof. was so cool and so well organized and the hype was amazing and just the energy was cool and all these production elements were off the charts. But then the course design suffered. thought there's no sense of destination. Like they just ran us and figure eights in the out and Aspen trees until we hit the mile mark that we needed. Then they brought us back through the finish line. So same thing. I was like, well, that kind of missed the mark.
Josh (22:21.26)
really?
Josh (22:48.221)
You
Julian (22:48.418)
Six or seven hundred of us just ran around in circles with no sense of destination. Like, what was the point of that? Kind of was like my, what I got from it. You know, like, cause I was so used to, I'm going to the peak of Olympus. I'm going to the peak of Granger. I'm going to the peak of Superior, whatever. And, you know, and, Jack's peak or, you know, all the beacon peak, all those cool peaks in the Salt Lake foothills, Black Mountain.
Josh (22:56.166)
Right.
Josh (23:12.594)
Yeah.
Julian (23:17.634)
So that was my mentality and like what I wanted. I wanted a reward. wanted some kind of sense of accomplishment. And so anyway, that race had like the sage Canada days and the Joe Grays and all that. So I quickly realized that I absolutely wasn't even close to being fast, but I still wanted to find a cool race that was what I was looking for. And like I said, that's when I went home and looked for that distance with.
Josh (23:17.809)
Yeah.
Josh (23:31.09)
Yeah.
Josh (23:42.449)
Right.
Julian (23:47.83)
some kind of cool mileage or small mileage with big elevation and couldn't find it. So it's kind of crazy that from finding that sense of accomplishment together, when you have a mass start like we do with five or 600 people, when you're in the finish line, it's just this cool shared sense of accomplishment.
Josh (24:06.267)
Yep.
Julian (24:16.268)
Like we all pushed ourselves to the red line and hit the same peak together. We all started in the same place, finished in the same place. And we can all have that common thread now to celebrate the experience we just had. and so having great brands there, having, you know, X games, do tour grade announcers with good music, amazing sound system, good.
Josh (24:16.921)
Absolutely.
Josh (24:29.498)
Yes. Yep.
Josh (24:40.881)
Yeah.
Julian (24:43.214)
beverages, good food available, awesome environment. To me, it surpasses it, like transcends quote unquote trail running, you know? It's a really cool mountain adventure. And so when you're done, you know, I want it to be super fun atmosphere. want people to hang out and celebrate, because that's what I was looking for. I wanted, it's like the event I was looking for. And so I was like, well, I better just create it.
Josh (24:46.118)
Yeah.
Josh (24:57.872)
Yeah.
Josh (25:12.956)
No man, that's exactly what it is. So when you think about, or for now when you, of course you know this, when I think about everything that you just explained, to pull that off once a year would be a really great accomplishment. Maybe even twice, three times. You're talking, what'd you say, seven, eight events next year or that you just wrapped up this year?
Julian (25:33.75)
Yeah, we've been doing seven and we might push it to eight pretty soon.
Josh (25:39.078)
I mean, it seems like you're doing all of that for that many events and yeah, the hundred hour weeks makes sense, you, mean, back to back weeks or, every other week, there's so much, so much to it. And are you hands, you are that hands on at each event?
Julian (25:54.03)
Yeah, I've been the active race director for nine seasons now. It's crazy.
Josh (25:57.618)
Wow and do I recall the Europe race was there like a race in Austria or something?
Julian (26:05.358)
Yeah, we did a race in Ingleberg, Switzerland in 2022 and 2023. held off this year though, but we realized that. I mean, it was a great event. A lot of the community came out and it's just a lot of heavy lifting, obviously to go produce a race in Switzerland. And we're like, you know what, let's really just keep planning.
Josh (26:08.977)
That's right.
Josh (26:30.279)
Yeah.
Julian (26:32.64)
and cementing our flag in the US. Like there's still places we want to go. Like we've been wanting to go up to the Northwest for a long time. So we're adding Crystal Mountain this year, which is huge for us. And we're looking at quite a few venues out East. We really want to get out East. So we're like, let's reel back into the US and just keep things.
Josh (26:48.239)
wow.
Julian (26:56.234)
Hummin out here and maybe we'll revisit the idea of Europe again soon. Cause obviously I love Europe. love the Alps. I love the culture. but you know, logistically and production wise, was lots of heavy lifting to go over there.
Josh (27:00.327)
Yeah.
Josh (27:05.904)
Yeah.
Josh (27:12.4)
Yeah, I mean, the model is so brilliant. when so if we have, you know, talking like entrepreneurs for a minute here, like the scalability of what you've done. I used to say so the so discrete was across from me at Lebarba. We were talking about this earlier. I owned the bar of coffee. You own discrete. We were both at the farmers market in downtown Salt Lake in like 2012. And, you know, there comes this point with an entrepreneur where it's like, hey, I have something that the only thing that's lacking is more time and money. Like sometimes it's the idea. Sometimes it's the execution. But
You're at this point now where as much as you have the appetite, you could scale, meaning you could have an East coast series, a West coast series, a mountain West series. You could have all these series. It's such a good model. What keeps, what's keeping you from doing 28 events next year and scaling and hiring and all that sort of stuff.
Julian (28:02.122)
haha
Julian (28:06.144)
I think that's just what we've been doing for the last four or five years. Now that we've been selling out our races consistently, and obviously getting over the COVID hurdle. but you know, gaining efficiency and, and figuring out how we can scale. And I think we're starting to figure out how we can do that. cause we really, even though we're nine years into it, took us four or five years to
Josh (28:18.492)
Sure, yeah.
Julian (28:34.572)
get to the point where you could call it successful. And then now that we've been successful, we really have to learn how to gain efficiency and learn how to scale. And I think we're getting to that point. So I think we're in a position now that's very fun. I think we can look with some kind of ambitious growth type of perspective.
without having to sacrifice any quality with the pre-existing events. And that's one thing I've always been super careful of. It's like, let's make sure that we're literally just throwing the best events possible. if, you know, by gaining one or two, losing any kind of quality with the ones we already have, to me, that's not a smart decision. So, you know, I think we're at that point now though, that we're getting really good at
Josh (29:23.986)
Mmm.
It's not worth it. Yeah.
Julian (29:32.206)
our systems and efficiencies. So I think we can keep producing and add some more in. So, like I said, we're, we're adding crystal this year and we're pretty close to adding a couple or at least one, out East and then we'll keep going from there.
Josh (29:46.822)
Yeah, dude, that's great. Well, I know I saw on the website, La Sportiva is your primary sponsor. Was on your sponsor for a few years. Do I recall that?
Julian (30:01.902)
Yes, we had a seven year relationship with them. Good eye. This Friday, November 1st, we're actually putting out a big press release and announcing Los Portivos, our new title sponsor. We just changed the website yesterday. When is this episode going to come out?
Josh (30:05.328)
Yeah. Yeah.
Josh (30:18.674)
I was probably going to release it Halloween, October 31st. Is that too soon? Do want me to wait? I don't mind.
Julian (30:26.702)
Yeah, that's fine. Because like I said on the first in the morning, we're putting the press release out. So it'll be great.
Josh (30:32.861)
I'll do it. I'll release it on November 1st.
Julian (30:35.726)
That'd be awesome.
Josh (30:37.424)
Yeah, but last word team is a great fit. Great fit.
Julian (30:39.764)
So yeah, we're thrilled. Yeah. I mean, they, they make some of the coolest, most rugged, cool. mean, they're ingrained in the, in the community. They're, they're a part of it, you know, they've been doing it for a long time.
Josh (30:46.759)
Ahem.
Josh (30:51.92)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, man, kudos to you on, on building such a great series. And I love that. I mean, I'm interviewing you because the series is so great now because we both have roots in Salt Lake City, but I Salt Lake City is sort of the epicenter of some of the coolest stuff happening and, and mountain sports, obviously winter sports, but for me trail running. So I really appreciate you shedding some light on what you're up to and it's going to be a blast. I know that we'll, you know, talk again in a couple of years and
It'll only be bigger and better. just seems to be the common thing year over year. Just man, just gets bigger and better.
Julian (31:30.176)
Yeah, well, thanks. It's a super fun project and lots of talented people obviously are behind it. Amazing staff. it's just once like April, May comes around, just switch gears. And I feel like I just punch in in June and then don't punch back out until September, but it feels good just to be.
Josh (31:51.536)
Yeah, you just.
Julian (31:57.886)
on it, you know, just be at capacity all summer and produce great events and see people having a ton of fun. you know, you being based in France and obviously seeing how trail running is part of the culture there, you know, they've been doing it for a long time and it's a part of the community. just, I feel like it's part of the way of life a little bit. And out in the U S
Josh (31:57.991)
Yeah.
Josh (32:01.308)
Yeah.
Josh (32:14.916)
Engrained, yep. Yep.
Julian (32:24.118)
I feel like trail running is like this new emerging activity, you know, whereas obviously people have been hiking and enjoying their time in the mountains in the U S forever. But trail running as you, as we see it as an industry is quite new in the U S even though we do have some pretty cool heritage events, but just to be a part of the U S what we're representing to the rest of the world. feels good because I think we have amazing mountains. We have amazing high Alpine. We have amazing events.
Josh (32:28.999)
Yeah.
Josh (32:49.65)
Yeah.
Julian (32:54.124)
And we have a lot to offer too. So when people just think of trail running, it's like the Alps are the gold standard and I totally am aligned with that, but it's fun to put together events that I can feel I'm proud of to be like, Hey, like come check out our events, like a promise. they're, they're very fun. So it's cool to just aim for that, you know, to, have Europe as a kind of a, way they go about it, the way it's part of culture and the way.
Josh (33:05.628)
Yeah.
Josh (33:14.599)
Yeah.
Josh (33:18.45)
Totally.
Yeah.
Julian (33:24.256)
celebrate it as just something to always be ambitious and to kind of aim for.
Josh (33:29.564)
I was having dinner with someone the other day here. This to me is the marker. This is the thing that I'm looking for in the United States. I was having dinner with this guy here in France and he, said, I, know, I'm a big fan of trial running. And he said, did you see Matthew Blanchard just one that diagonal, the fool or fully, however you say it. And I was like, yeah, I saw that. Are you a trial runner? And he said, no, no, I just, I would just, I like to follow it. And I was like someday. mean that I said, that's the dream for us in America from my entrepreneurial side to be, to be doing stuff that's captivating to non-runners.
is the dream, just to see it grow like that and to see non-runners be able to celebrate these crazy things that these, you know, ultra runners or mountain runners are doing is the hope.
Julian (34:11.374)
Totally agreed. And I think that's the interesting kind of where we're heading is like, how do we, storytell and provide that kind of narrative about the elites and about who the series winners are, our overall, our standings, but still making everyone feel seen, still making all the beginner types feel like, that's just for elites, you know? So it's fun to.
Josh (34:40.412)
Yeah.
Julian (34:40.93)
have that challenge of like, how do we do that? How do we make sure the elites feel seen? Make sure the elites put their time and energy and their careers into our events when they have so many choices, but then have it still be approachable and fun and energetic and then, know, something that isn't just intimidating for the average person. So it's a fun storytelling opportunity as well.
Josh (34:42.768)
Yeah. I mean.
Josh (34:59.388)
Yeah.
Josh (35:09.374)
I know I was winding us down, actually have a, that spurred on an interesting question. Do you see yourself as a golden trail series type thing? I mean, like in terms of like your ambition and in terms of the media behind it and the presentation of the storytelling, like they do such a good job with their, with their media, with their in race and post race coverage is just the gold standard.
Julian (35:33.194)
absolutely. They're, they crush it. So good. I love their content. I love their storytelling. And certainly we look at that as kind of, you know, a good roadmap, a good way to be inspired to put together your content and a story tell. But like I said, it can't be all about the athletes. So obviously they're very, very elite heavy, which is great. That's what they're building.
Josh (35:34.578)
Ahem.
Josh (35:56.57)
Right, right.
Julian (36:02.668)
And that's who comes out for their races. So we just have to find that kind of centerline.
Josh (36:05.756)
That's what makes you so unique and so incredible is that you have the elites, but you have everybody else too. That's such good content.
Julian (36:12.366)
Yeah, no, it's super fun to, it's crazy at the events because I can tell like the professional runners, they're like usually at events where it's just their peers, right? Or they're longer type of events where there's not that party atmosphere as much as at least a Cirque series. So suddenly for them to be in an environment where they're surrounded by just so many people fanning out on them, I can tell it's a pretty fun and unique.
Josh (36:25.179)
Right.
Julian (36:40.082)
environment for them as well. They're not just around their peers. And then obviously for the average folks, I that's inspiring to me. Like I love being around those types and seeing what they're capable of. Like with my own eyes, like seeing them be as fast as they are and observing it in a front row seat is just so incredible. So it's a two-way street. Like all the average people are there that get to see.
Josh (36:40.54)
Yeah.
Josh (36:52.442)
Yeah, totally. Yeah.
Josh (36:58.268)
Yeah.
Julian (37:08.002)
watch and feel like touch smell and just like wow like these guys are super human so it's very fun two-way relationship there.
Josh (37:15.292)
Yeah.
Yeah. Well, well, Julian, thanks for joining me. We'll be paying attention, but I really appreciate your time and I hope we can do this again.
Julian (37:27.47)
For sure, man. Thank you. had a great chat with you.
Josh (37:30.418)
See you.
