Ep106 • The POST-Covid Trail Running Shoe Explosion: NNormal, Norda, Speedland.
I went into this conversation ready to hate on NNormal and Taylor Bodin (lead trail reviewer of Believe in the Run) changed my mind.
Geek out on the strengths and weaknesses of their shoes along with Speedland + Norda.
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Believe in the Run reviews:
Speedland: GS:TAM, GS:PGH, SL:HSV
Norda: Norda 001, Norda 002, Norda 003
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Call the Borderlands Hotline - RUNMORE649 That's (786)667-3649. Leave a voice message I can play in a future podcast. We're looking for hot takes, disagreement, agreement, anger, happiness, indifference, etc.
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Partners:
Devil's Gulch 100 miler, 50 miler, 13.1 miles. Wenatchee, WA - July 13, 2025
Salt Lake Footshills Trail Races. Salt Lake City, UT - May 31, 2025
VKTRY Insoles - I wear these every run, 20% off.
PATH Projects - My favorite running shorts, Borderlands10 for 10% off.
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Josh (00:00.942)
Alright, as you know, I've I've never been the guy who drills down on gear. I like gear. I like the way it looks. I care about how it functions, but I've never drilled down on it. But now I find myself looking forward to these episodes every week every other week with Taylor Bodean, lead trail reviewer of Believe in the Run because I've got my I've been building my vocabulary. I think I'm a I think I'm like a 5 % or like bottom 5 % in terms of how much I know about shoes, even though I've worn them my whole life. I've been running in trail shoes for 13 years or so.
And so we've gone brand by brand and we've started with Heritage. We kind of paid sort of an homage to all the the greats that have gone before us that have set up our industry to be what it is in terms of Solomon and what's happened North Face recently. And we've looked at Brooks, did a little bit with with Tarex. But today we feel like we've kind of made that we've spent our time in Heritage. We've done our time. We've paid our respects and now we're
into these modern shoe companies, these new shoe companies, 2020, 21, 22, that all just come out recently. And they've made a huge splash. And one time a quote that sticks with me from Taylor is that, well, maybe Hoka isn't going to have one dominant competitor, but it's going to be death by a thousand one percenters. And today I think we've got a handful of one percenters, maybe more, depends on if you're in Europe, depends on if you're in America. But before we get into
Normal, Norda, and Speedland. Taylor, welcome. Thanks for joining me.
Taylor Bodin (01:32.802)
Yeah, thanks for joining me. As you were talking, I'm just thinking about I was just creating an article, we do our end of year our best in gear awards. And it was interesting, I just kept thinking about our conversations because of the shoes that popped up of what our reviewers love the most in each category. And yeah, it has a it has some of those heritage brands, like, it was actually a surprise to me that Brooks showed up on there the most.
of like, I know, yeah. Well, I mean, in some ways, but yeah, in some ways we are, but we were totally right on that brand. It's here, it's it'll.
Josh (02:01.358)
man, that means I was wrong.
Taylor Bodin (02:15.108)
it'll come in with a big swing. Like I had a big lineup this last year and they were all like good enough to be on our year end awards. But then there's also a lot of brands that are showing up that yeah, there are these 1 % really niche you could say, but they're, they're making
Josh (02:16.502)
Yeah. Yeah.
Taylor Bodin (02:35.084)
they're making a big splash, even though they're smaller companies. And yeah, I don't think we could be at this point in trail running without any of those big players that we've talked about before. But I'm excited about this talk today because it's getting into all the... If you're a gear nerd, it's gonna get into all that. If you're looking for running experience, it encompasses all that. And there's just...
small nuances between each brand that makes it so unique that there is space for all of these 1 % brands.
Josh (03:04.758)
Yeah. Yeah.
Josh (03:10.494)
What's fun about doing brands like this for me, and we'll see when we get into normal, maybe they're an exception, but they're new, they're young, they're nimble, so every release is really exciting because they're still developing their vocabulary, their design language, their feature, their product language, all this sort of stuff. So each one has, to me, a lot of anticipation or at least excitement when it gets released.
Taylor Bodin (03:34.809)
Mm-hmm.
Josh (03:37.966)
But why don't we just jump in? We kind of had a little exercise right before that was, that was kind of fun. It's, Hey, we're going to have these three brands, which ones we think have the most sales just for fun. And, your comment was, well, it depends on if we're in Europe or in America, we're just going to guess here and we're going to go in this order that we're going to go normal first because I'm in Europe. I do see normal around here. I've seen normal, running along the river here. I've even seen them,
Actually and more so in a lifestyle application people just walking around with their their normal trail shoes on then we'll do Norda and then we'll do speed land We're just guessing in terms of total sales volume And we've never done multiple brands in one show So also that that's a unique challenge for me to drive this, know to push this along at a reasonable pace where they all get their fair share They all deserve it. But let's jump in with normal Killian Jornet and it's a killian jornet and camper partnership that started in
in 2022. My primary question, it also then is my primary concern, compared to Norda and Speedland, which are true startups, Killian joined forces with Camper. And Camper is, if you ever go to a major city in Paris, you'll see Camper shoe stores everywhere. They're huge. What do you know about Camper and Killian working together?
Taylor Bodin (04:51.629)
Mm-hmm.
Taylor Bodin (05:04.104)
the basics of what I know, and this is coming from an American perspective and talking to Americans connected with normal is that, camper is a resource. They're a financial resource. can get any materials that you want. So they're really an incredible resource, incredible. They have incredible experience, a long time of experience and the footwear industry and gear industry. so.
Josh (05:31.106)
Mm-hmm.
Taylor Bodin (05:33.116)
That seems to be what Camper is mostly for normal, a resource in a lot of different ways, not just a financial resource, but a solid resource.
Josh (05:38.552)
Okay.
Josh (05:44.96)
Okay, that makes sense. I see also that they're from Mallorca, Spain. And so maybe there's that connection too. I never knew that. I always thought with a name like Camper, to me that was maybe British or something that's not Spanish, but it looks like there's this, maybe there's some connection there on the Spanish level.
Taylor Bodin (05:50.114)
Yeah.
Taylor Bodin (05:54.957)
Yeah. Uh-huh. Yep.
Taylor Bodin (06:02.232)
Yeah, there could be, I'm not sure of that for sure, yeah, think it's kind of the, from a financial perspective for Killian and his family of like, that's the way to go instead of taking out all this capital, getting investors otherwise of that would be a huge...
Josh (06:16.707)
You're right.
Yeah.
It's smart. Yeah.
Taylor Bodin (06:23.508)
huge jump, which yeah, and it's like, when you look at the other two brands, these are when they started, the founders were they're late in their career, I shouldn't say late in their career, but they they have a lot of experience in this industry before jumping into their own, their own venture. And so and so does Killian. He's still fairly young, though. He had a ton of experience working with product that Solomon
Josh (06:30.306)
Eh-eh.
Josh (06:39.51)
Yeah.
Josh (06:45.463)
Yeah.
Taylor Bodin (06:50.396)
And I mean, we talked about that on our Solomon episode. You guys should go back and listen to that if you haven't of like, he was along for those early years of development into what it is today. Some of the shoes that are still coming out still absolutely have his influence. so, yeah, so there's a lot of experience coming into this little sphere of what normal is now and.
Josh (06:50.442)
Hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Josh (07:06.926)
Mm-hmm.
Taylor Bodin (07:18.936)
pays dividends, apparently.
Josh (07:20.43)
It's a great perspective. I don't know how I didn't think of it that way because that's generally how I think. But yeah, he just he kind of had a cheat code by going with Camper. Killian doesn't have to manage supply chain. He doesn't have to manage sales teams. I know they have them. I don't know. You know, I don't know the structure and maybe it's outside the scope of the show. But you're right. There's like a hack that he got with Camper. And if he feels some level of alignment with them on environmental impact or something like that, it's not obvious that Camper Camper's value proposition is
Taylor Bodin (07:30.392)
Yeah.
Taylor Bodin (07:48.034)
Yeah, exactly.
Josh (07:50.656)
an inner environmental impact proposition, but maybe there is something there, there's some alignment. And so he got a hack into getting a shoe company, you know, at a young age without, without the capital. So what is, what makes a normal shoe a normal shoe? Like what's their, what's their thing?
Taylor Bodin (07:57.827)
Mm-hmm.
Taylor Bodin (08:03.907)
Yeah.
Taylor Bodin (08:08.118)
Yeah, I think if we first like talk about ethos for for Killian himself when he's wanting to design a shoe, like the main the main front is sustainability. So creating one a good shoe that performs that you're going to want to be in. Because I mean, if you're not selling it and nobody wants to be in it doesn't really matter.
Josh (08:24.898)
Yeah. Right. That matter the impact on the environment.
Taylor Bodin (08:31.012)
Exactly. so if also Killian's using all of these products, and so if he's not using them, if they're not up to that standard to be at a world class performance level, like again, so that's, that's another point. So it's sustainable from the standpoint of you want to be able to wear it you want to be able, you got to be able to wear it for a long time. And so he's going for a certain experience, just like we talked about.
Josh (08:37.624)
Mmm.
Josh (08:45.646)
Good point. Yeah.
Taylor Bodin (08:59.766)
with Solomon, it's going to be that more grounded, feel the earth be connected type experience. And that's where they came out with their first normal Shirok. So it's a lower to the ground, really versatile shoe, super light. That's what a lot of people like about it. Super light, super durable. And it feels mostly modern when you think of the scope of what the market is right now for trail running. Like I mentioned our best in gear awards.
Josh (09:02.158)
Mm-hmm.
Taylor Bodin (09:30.279)
16 of the 19 shoes that were on there had a some sort of supercritical modern midsole. So the foam underneath the foot which is going to be it's going to be a lighter experience, it's going to be bouncier, that kind of experience where that's not exactly what was going on here. This is a softer midsole. And but it's not exactly that it's going to be
Yeah, a lower to the ground connected feel that's going to be good for anything from technical to shorter races. Some people are doing their 100 miles in these. mean, it's just going to be based off of what you prefer, but it's just a really solid shoe. Durable, super durable, has that matrix upper really, really technical Vibram mega grip outsole. So from a material standpoint, they're really building this thing to be strong, light, fast.
Josh (10:10.957)
Yeah.
Josh (10:22.531)
Hmm.
Josh (10:28.716)
Yeah.
Taylor Bodin (10:30.136)
connected to the ground.
Josh (10:31.438)
But is there anything innovative happening here or did Killian in a lot of ways take everything he did at Solomon and all that time and kind of all of that knowledge and brought it into his ideal perfect shoe?
Taylor Bodin (10:43.128)
I think that's where, that's basically the idea behind the Shrock of like coming in and creating a shoe that would be fairly ideal in a lot of circumstances. mean, Killian's broken a lot of records in this shoe. There's nothing from like a materials. I mean, the materials are special. Don't get me wrong. They're the highest quality, but from like, there's no like.
Josh (10:53.784)
Yeah.
Josh (10:59.384)
Hmm.
Josh (11:06.198)
Right. Yeah.
Taylor Bodin (11:09.678)
plates inside of this. There's no high stack that's making you bounce. It's just a secure fitting shoe, really reliable. Like I just love putting this on and going for it trail run, no matter really where it, where it goes or what I'm doing. So yeah. So that
Josh (11:11.862)
Ahem.
Josh (11:20.398)
Hmm.
Josh (11:25.868)
Yeah. And that is that the one from 2022?
Taylor Bodin (11:30.946)
Yes, so this was their first shoe, their first launch. And I think it retails at 195. And so that is steep. But something that NormaL is doing is that they have the ability, they designed the outsole and the midsole, how that connects in a way that you can just resole this shoe. And yeah, and so if you can just get a new sole, which is mostly
Josh (11:32.6)
Got it.
Josh (11:37.312)
Okay.
Josh (11:51.648)
Mm-hmm. whoa.
Taylor Bodin (11:59.94)
why people get new shoes in the trail world. Their sole is gone. A lot of like older shoes, five, seven to 10 years back. The midsole actually doesn't change all that much. And that's what's really nice with this shoe of like the midsole, no matter how many miles you have on it, isn't gonna change all that much. your outsole, even though this is a Vibram Mega Grip, some of the best in the industry, you can just replace that. And so that...
Josh (12:03.501)
Yeah.
Josh (12:08.448)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Josh (12:24.643)
Yeah.
Whoa, I've never heard of this before. mean, could, if I had that shoe and I wanted to replace it, is it something that I can do? Do I send it to them? How do you actually get that done?
Taylor Bodin (12:37.902)
So they're working out the details of how that is. Some places have like a pop-up shop like in Boulder. I don't know if they have it yet, but they'll have a cobbler there that they work with who would specifically work on normal shoes. So you could bring them in, get your new mega grip on there and go. And so from that standpoint, like that's sustainable, Of like keeping shoes on your feet longer, keeping them out of the landfill longer.
Josh (12:44.853)
cool. Very cool.
Josh (12:51.725)
that's really cool.
Josh (13:00.684)
That is.
Josh (13:04.398)
Ahem.
Yeah.
Taylor Bodin (13:08.024)
Yeah, I like that idea for sure. And they're coming out with a new shoe. I'm sure you've heard of it. Well, that's more of a modular type. And so it's normal. I think they say it's shaboy. It looks like K-Box. Some people like, your boy Scott Jurek will be talking about. I think it's shaboy.
Josh (13:22.669)
Josh (13:26.488)
pronounce that?
Josh (13:31.116)
That is that's crazy. Yes, I've seen it and it actually is a very good looking shoe and it has some design elements that remind me of Norda actually.
Taylor Bodin (13:32.72)
Yeah, so.
Yeah.
Taylor Bodin (13:39.992)
Totally. Yeah. So there's that's their upcoming shoe for this next year that you can get some pre-sale right now. And the whole idea behind that is taking this idea further where one, you can change the foam that you're going to be feeling underfoot. So if you want, if you want this experience, that's more connected to the ground, more of a daily feel, you could put in an EVA midsole. If you want something that's lighter, faster, bouncier, you can take
out that midsole, it's really an insole, but it's your midsole, the same foam you're gonna feel. You can take that out and put in one of a different material, like a Piba material that's gonna be highly responsive, highly cushioned, doing that for race day or long efforts or something like that. But you can also, on that, can see, I think what you're seeing with Speedland is that stitched outsole that comes up around the forefoot, around the foot a little bit.
Josh (14:16.397)
Hmm.
Josh (14:39.171)
Mm-hmm.
Taylor Bodin (14:39.47)
So their idea with that is just take all that off, replace it when you need it. Take out the midsole, replace it. So you have three shoes in one essentially. So then you can just send that back when you need a new one in order just that foam you drop in. And the upper I believe is Matrix. I can't remember what it is. And that's really, it's like one of the lightest, most durable uppers. If a shoe breaks down with Matrix, it's not the Matrix that's blown out.
Josh (14:44.119)
Mmm.
Taylor Bodin (15:09.622)
And so you have all these pieces that you can replace as needed. And that's their take on having a shoe that can give you lot of experiences and it's more sustainable. It's a really cool idea.
Josh (15:09.807)
Huh.
Josh (15:23.084)
Okay. I came into this conversation wanting to be critical of normal on their camper partnership, but you changed my perspective on that. I wanted to be critical on their design, but I've actually seeing this sheboy. Got me excited. I also want to be critical on their, what sometimes could feel like virtue signaling, but there's actually some real innovation happening on the impact side of things, if it's not the material side of things. So all the things I was ready to be critical on now,
Taylor Bodin (15:30.52)
Ha
Taylor Bodin (15:48.942)
Totally. Yeah.
Josh (15:52.844)
the virtue signaling side of things, it's just maybe as someone who's far away from it, not like as close to it as you are, I heard a lot of these environmental things, but they were not obvious to me. I was missing the marketing or something, but, or maybe he was touting it before this sort of thing was out. But I think this is, mean, that's, other than materials, that's a.
That's revolutionary in some degrees to be able to just replace certain parts of your shoe. That's really impressive.
Taylor Bodin (16:22.99)
Totally.
Totally, and I know that's like with Speedlens onset and maybe we'll go to Speedlens next or I can't remember who's next, but on their onset, sure, that was a big part of their idea of the desire to be able to go there and be able to like recycle in a sustainable way. But when it comes to practice, it is so hard in a global industry.
Josh (16:30.924)
Yeah. it's, Taylor's choice.
Josh (16:42.318)
Mm-hmm.
Taylor Bodin (16:52.022)
And so even like normal is not going to come out with a bunch of shoes. You might come out with a colorway or two of the same shoe, because this is a type of shoe that a lot of people are going to want to be in. And so that's their sustainable standpoint of having more of a timeless feel good for about anything. But also they have another one. And we'll see this with all of these brands are talking about today. They basically have like a two shoe quiver.
Josh (17:00.344)
Mm-hmm.
Taylor Bodin (17:18.594)
and then they're branching out on some of those shoes. So the other one they have is the Tomir, and this is the 2.0. And this one does have a more super critical modern midsole. So it is going to feel bouncy, lighter. And this is our higher stack option. And that's what you're going to see with all these brands. have a lower stack option, good for just about anything, higher stack option that has a lot of the same ingredients, gives you a little bit of a different experience.
Josh (17:20.993)
Mmm.
Josh (17:30.296)
Mm-hmm.
Taylor Bodin (17:46.4)
in terms of what the ride's gonna feel like, different comfort measures. for the most part, this one is on our Best in Gear awards, Tomir 2.0, because it's a higher stack shoe, but also very durable, can go on a lot of different terrain. I take these into the mountains regularly. So yeah, just kind of hitting a lot of standpoints, keeping them on people's feet. And then, yeah.
Josh (17:46.541)
Yeah.
Josh (18:06.286)
Hmm.
Josh (18:11.566)
Yeah, that's the one I was just looking at the different color ways. That's the one that I saw that I've seen like in street wear or lifestyle application here. that yeah, yeah, that's what I said. I said, you're a trail runner. And he said, no, I've never, I will never, but I love these shoes.
Taylor Bodin (18:20.994)
Yeah, really comfortable, for sure.
Taylor Bodin (18:30.242)
Yeah. and just for normal sake, I might want to say this of like, we know a lot of Killian's influence prompted a much slimmer last at Solomon. One thing with normal, it is going to be slimmer in the right spots in the midfoot and the heel. Get really good lockdown. We've talked about that. But then in the forefoot, it's going to be more generous than most of the Solomon. I know that's what some people hold some people back from trying normal is they just feel like it's going to be
Josh (18:44.194)
Hmm. Hmm.
Yeah.
Taylor Bodin (18:59.872)
of really slim all the way through a slim fit, but they are a little more generous and they run a little bit long, especially on the Shirok. So for anybody who's thinking about trying it.
Josh (19:01.452)
Yeah. Yeah.
Hmm. Yeah.
Yeah, I think it's because they're so low profile. Like, you know, my description of Sullivan back when we did that one was like, there's like an F1 feeling to it. It's just like very low profile. The materials, there's nothing chunky about it. And so then the perception might be that it's smaller or narrower.
Taylor Bodin (19:26.894)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yep, exactly. Yeah, so.
Josh (19:33.442)
All right, so in 2021, our friends Dave Donbrow and Kevin Fallon, they were tooling around. They were the former heads of everything, shoe design, everywhere except for where Jean-Marc Dejean was apparently. But these guys were, they were made for this. they are a lot of fun. were, I think they had something that they called like fuck around Fridays or something that they were doing during the pandemic where they would just.
Taylor Bodin (19:45.252)
Pretty much
Exactly.
Taylor Bodin (20:00.61)
Yep. They still do it. Kevin always Kevin and Dave, they post on their personal accounts a lot. And yeah, I'm here for it.
Josh (20:02.016)
make up some shoes just for fun on a Friday. They still do it. Nice.
Really.
Well, and then Speedland was born and you know, I was fortunate enough to have Dave Dombrow came to Salt Lake and we did a podcast together and thoroughly enjoyed him. I mean, I'm into him for the design. I love the design so much and you know, where he kept pushing me in that conversation was no, we're here for function. It's not a coincidence that it looks good, but it's not our primary thing. It's like their value proposition is zero compromise on materials. We don't care what we have to charge, but we're going to put the
Taylor Bodin (20:27.064)
Mm-hmm.
Josh (20:41.74)
best materials. that's my that's kind of my two cents on that. I mean, what's your read on it? What's your take on them?
Taylor Bodin (20:46.873)
Yeah.
Well, I thought it was pretty cool for us at Believe in the Run. We were with them when they launched and like we were part of the story the whole time. And it's just been so fun to like, one, learn from those guys because their experience levels when you put them both together and they've done a lot of jobs together over the years, but they've also been at separate brands at times. And now they're back together. It kind of reminds me of like...
Josh (20:56.946)
really?
Josh (21:10.562)
Yeah, crazy.
Taylor Bodin (21:18.702)
And they're car people. And so this would resonate with them of like, you know, later on in your career, when you have a little more money and some older folks, they're really not that old of like, they get really into cars and can finally start doing the things to the cars that they want. Like my father-in-law is going to retire this year and he has a Corvette that he's going to rebuild and hasn't been able to do it, you know, for a long time since he's had kids and all that kind of stuff. And so.
Josh (21:20.622)
Really?
Josh (21:38.893)
Hmm.
Taylor Bodin (21:46.516)
It feels like they got to that point in their career where like, yeah, let's just go for it. We can do it together as buddies and, their experience. And we talked about this with Killian too of like, they have the experience right there. They have everything they need. They know the ins and outs of the industry. They know the ins and outs of design and how things work. And they're both trail runners. And so that, you know, makes this project just near and dear to their hearts. And that's, I always love no matter what it is, like
Josh (21:50.69)
Yeah.
Josh (22:02.542)
Alright.
Josh (22:12.066)
Yeah.
Taylor Bodin (22:16.012)
when people exude passion, like it's just fun to have some sort of window into that. so like having our passion to line, I guess, with trail running and then being able to get into something like this, this was their first shoe. Like it is just so cool to get something like this on foot and see how it develops over the years. so, yeah, so Speedland has really had two different styles so far.
Josh (22:26.177)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Josh (22:38.263)
Hmm, yeah.
Taylor Bodin (22:45.228)
And so they're kind of making funnels for their shoes. So they have the SL models. Wait, hold on a second. So they have the GS models. I'm just gonna get this clear. The GS models, which I'll hold up.
Josh (23:00.086)
Yeah, this is gonna be great for me, because I don't understand it.
Taylor Bodin (23:03.618)
Yeah, and so, okay, I had it right. So they had the SL models, which is their first couple of models. That's what they came out with, really revolutionary, like actually revolutionary for the trail running world. I think with coming off of like what we were talking about with Hoco that made the bridge between those heritage to these newer ideas, they brought all the new ideas, right? And at a time where,
there was just a few coming into the market. And so this is their SL model, the SLPDX, their first shoe. Some things you'll notice on this and these aren't available anymore. So I'm not going to spend too much time on them, but they were the first to come in with the Boa system. If you're not familiar with Boa, it's this dial system, but then they have this wrap that comes from the inside of the foot and just secures from the inside over the top and pulls you down
Josh (23:43.427)
Yeah.
Josh (23:55.544)
Mm-hmm.
Taylor Bodin (24:00.852)
into the footbed. it's really this shoe this SL series was the best is the best fitting shoe I've ever been in. It's the most secure. It feels like an extension of your foot. And so having two dials where most shoes just do one, you can secure the forefoot mid the front part of the forefoot more than you can in most on the other shoe. And up toward
Josh (24:11.714)
Really? Wow.
Josh (24:17.623)
Wow.
Josh (24:29.198)
Did they do better on that one than future versions? Or are you just saying when you put that on, that was the best ever and they've continued to get better?
Taylor Bodin (24:37.902)
So when I put this on, this was the best ever and still is in terms of fit. You can't dial in really any other shoe the same. Even one of their newer models, which is the GS series, their higher stack series. You can't get the same experience because you're not as low to the ground. So this one's going to be a lower to the ground model. You're going to feel more connected. like that was one part that's revolutionary, but then they have
Josh (24:42.648)
Mm-hmm.
Josh (24:46.318)
Hmm.
Josh (24:50.604)
Mm-hmm. Okay.
Taylor Bodin (25:06.104)
this like stitched on outsole, partly for durability and their idea initially was like, hey, when that runs out, yes, we could essentially replace that if we needed to. So that was revolutionary at the time. And then another thing that Speedland is famous for is they were the ones who really started that drop in midsole. And so the foam you would feel underfoot is now inside the shoe and you can drop it in and you can add
Josh (25:16.718)
Hmm.
Josh (25:27.054)
Hmm.
Josh (25:32.204)
Whoa.
Taylor Bodin (25:36.278)
a plate if you wanted to. So this is a Carbotex plate. And so it does help a lot with stability. There's not a lot of torsional motion, and you can't bend it in certain ways, but it bends a lot in other ways. And so it's really becoming custom footwear, which is like you see, we're seeing it with normal custom footwear. Speedland, they were the first and I'm excited to see where they go there. They're having a couple more models.
Josh (25:44.344)
Mm-hmm.
Josh (25:58.262)
Yeah. Yeah.
Whoa.
Taylor Bodin (26:05.988)
come out this next year, a new line. And so, so yeah, they went from this and then applied it to the SL series and then they applied it to a higher stack. So that's for these new companies, they're really hitting the more connected feel, the more grounded classic trail runner feel with their own take on it. And then they go for a higher stack version because especially in America, we want the cushion, we want the ride. And so,
Josh (26:07.482)
well. Okay.
Josh (26:16.844)
Mmm.
Taylor Bodin (26:36.076)
They have a lot of the design elements we've talked about with other shoe brands of yes, higher stack. This is a beaded TPU external midsole, but they also have the internal drop in midsole. So lots of cushion, different experiences. So different layers of that. Good. I mean, a really quality out Michelin outsole still with the two boa dials, but because this one is, is higher stack.
it's not gonna feel as nimble, of course, as some of these other shoes that are lower to the ground. that's really like their two offerings. And I think it would be honoring to Speedlint to say that they work on a commission basis. they create a lineup of shoes and they might do a few different colorways or iterations of a shoe. Like this is the GS series. So this is the GS PDX.
Josh (27:33.826)
Mm-hmm. Mm.
Taylor Bodin (27:33.976)
the Grand Sport. And so this is just paying homage to Portland. But they also have a couple other collaborations with Cam Haines of this very shoe. Their first one was a free trail version. But each one has basic, the basics are all the same on it. Maybe slight variations in terms of what type of plate sometimes or sometimes
Josh (27:44.494)
Yeah.
Taylor Bodin (28:03.436)
like a little bit of an upper adjustment, just tiny changes in that series until they go to a new model, which they'll have this GL model, which is kind of combining the two models they have already, meeting them in the middle. Yeah.
Josh (28:18.734)
Okay. So the Michelin sole, I mean, I like it, again, I'm coming at it from a, it's just like an aesthetic and like a unifying theme of like something about Michelin fills premium because, I think of Michelin star restaurants, even though they're tire company. What's the, I mean, Michelin versus aren't there occasional shoes that have like a Goodyear sole or a Pirelli sole?
Taylor Bodin (28:45.602)
Yep. Continental rubber. Yeah. So there's Goodyear.
Josh (28:49.016)
Continental, yeah, compared to the Vibram, know, like, why Michelin for them?
Taylor Bodin (28:56.578)
Yeah, and so one, originally Michelin was able to do this wrap around outsole and they partnered with that. It is a really tacky rubber. Once it gets colder, it actually freezes up a little bit. And so that's one of the knocks on it. And they've adjusted it over time. Like this is equally as tacky and not.
Josh (29:04.344)
Hmm.
Josh (29:10.36)
Yes.
Josh (29:14.037)
interesting. OK.
Josh (29:23.714)
Doesn't turn into ice.
Taylor Bodin (29:23.85)
It's not as conditions dependent. And so, so it is good rubber, but nowadays of like, with a lot of shoes, like we're talking about now splitting hairs of where if Vibram MegaGrip is like the A plus or the A standard, this would be like, you know, in the B, B plus range, you know, so there's a lot of shoes, shoe companies, and just rubber companies that are in the game. Every
Every shoe brand wants their own rubber, but some companies will go out and a lot of them will go out to like Vibram and whatnot. But yeah, it really is like, yeah, it's a scale that's fairly close and for the most part, consumers won't pick up on all the nuances, but because I think.
Josh (30:01.325)
Yeah.
Taylor Bodin (30:17.526)
if you're a shoe nerd and get in a lot of variety of shoes, you'll start feeling the difference where this is like super tacky is the word I like to see it say, but it doesn't get a lot of like clawing action if in other brands get that better and durability and all that kind of stuff.
Josh (30:21.016)
Yeah.
Josh (30:31.063)
Mmm.
Josh (30:36.43)
So you'd say Vibram is the best of the best, that's the top performing.
Taylor Bodin (30:45.304)
I would say it's the most well-rounded top performing in terms of grip and application. There are a couple others like VJ shoes has their own outsole that's, it's a butyl rubber and it's like incredibly durable and super grippy. I don't know if I have, yeah I do.
Josh (31:10.117)
Of course you do.
Taylor Bodin (31:11.138)
I do, yeah. so, yeah, again, and like this would be like, if Vibram's the A, this is, you know, up there in some cases might be better, in some cases might not be, but it's up there. There's a lot of, yeah, there's just so many brands with so many great things going on.
Josh (31:36.29)
mean, Speedland is obviously pretty close to selling out every time. I mean, I don't know their order sizes, but they're selling out. I mean, I'm sure buying the right sizes is the challenge. Like, don't admire, you know, envy any of that, I should say. You know, to be in that position of trying to forecast sizes, all that sort of stuff, probably by now they're in pretty good shape, and I know their background could get them there as well. But what do you think for...
Taylor Bodin (31:52.203)
Exactly, yeah.
Josh (32:04.258)
you know, for Speedland as a brand when they're, you know, putting together their next shoe, when they're thinking through the next thing, like their performance, their performance, they're gonna make that performance even better, the material even better, they're gonna keep upgrading all that, but why don't we see their shoes on more first place finishes? And I asked that because I asked Dave and I was like, hey, you know,
This is clearly, these are clearly good looking shoes. You probably did design first and function, right? And he said, no function. So these are such great performing shoes. I think I have an answer for this, but I'm just curious your take. Like why don't we see these on more podiums at elite, like, you know, of the marquee races.
Taylor Bodin (32:34.2)
Totally.
Taylor Bodin (32:46.454)
Yeah, exactly. For one, like when you take a shoe like this, there's a lot of really quality ingredients and the experience of running in it is really unique. It's great. But at the end of the day, it's a heavy shoe. It's one of the heaviest shoes that I've reviewed in recent history. And so that's one thing. Elites these days, that's one, most of them are tied to brand.
Josh (33:00.387)
Mm-hmm.
Josh (33:04.138)
Is it? Okay.
Josh (33:15.734)
Yes, that's what I would say. Yeah.
Taylor Bodin (33:16.292)
So that's one thing. And another thing is that they're one of the first aspects they're gonna look at is does it feel light? Does it feel fast? And where this particular series which they've been focusing on for the last couple of years, the GS series, it's heavier, it feels good. You can do a lot of different terrain with it even though it's a really high stack shoe, quite versatile. But the fact is it's heavy.
Josh (33:28.141)
Hmm.
Taylor Bodin (33:46.084)
is not the most nimble. And if you're feeling that on race day, even in the hundred milers, and so where pace is a little more irrelevant, you still want that certain sensations. And I don't think this one's going to give the elite sensation per se. I say that and then you can have someone like Dylan Bowman go out there and crush 100 miles in it,
Josh (33:52.759)
Yeah.
Josh (34:13.038)
right.
Taylor Bodin (34:15.32)
Dylan Bowman's their athlete. And so that's part of it too. so, and that maybe that's a conversation with you and Wolf Runner of like, which brands, you know, like the Yankees, of course they should be winning everything with the highest payroll of like, which brands have the highest payroll and Speedland just doesn't do that. It's two guys with a ton of experience giving some of the best product in...
Josh (34:17.623)
Right.
Yeah.
Josh (34:29.248)
You
Right. good point. Yeah.
Josh (34:41.362)
Yeah.
Yes.
Taylor Bodin (34:44.52)
the industry, but their focus is getting the best product and like you said function out there to the masses and not necessarily the the elites not saying they're not focusing on the elites because all of their shoes come out of elite level partnerships. And so
Josh (34:55.403)
And at
Josh (35:02.646)
Yeah. I would say as an observation is that Dave and Kevin are happy. And so, you know, it's like they, they had, as we've mentioned multiple times, these successful career and really high pressure environments. Like Dave was a head of design for Under Armour, like, and that wasn't just shoes or, mean, that was a shoes across all sports, all, I don't know, massive amount. It seemed like he's just having fun and they seem happy and
Taylor Bodin (35:27.107)
Yeah.
Taylor Bodin (35:31.875)
Yeah.
Josh (35:32.012)
then they're putting out this great shoe and it's selling out. on that level, like it's fun. It's fun to drill down on it and ask the questions of why don't they aren't they on more podiums? But at the end of the day, what an enviable spot to be selling out of all your product and to least perceptively from my, from my vantage point, they're happy. That's fantastic.
Taylor Bodin (35:44.9)
.
Taylor Bodin (35:50.798)
Totally, and I mean, just two of the athletes that they have on their team, like those are, they're doing the brand thing right, of like they're building a brand on a couple of marquee athletes. And Cam Haynes, he's a great runner, known for his hunting more than anything, but they were able to spread, well, hunting and fitness. And so,
Josh (36:09.732)
Yeah.
Josh (36:14.102)
Yes.
Taylor Bodin (36:15.044)
they automatically with someone who's also trail running, they automatically entered those spaces and their the landscape changes for them in a sales standpoint because I mean my brother's a big hunter he was into fitness and runs every once in a while he would totally grab that shoe just because cam haines has it and so
Josh (36:21.336)
Yeah.
Josh (36:33.611)
Nice. Well, and I think like they've done a good job of, mean, think they were mentioned on Joe Rogan. So that was an instant, like some credibility. I think they were, last I talked to them, they were trying to get jelly roll into them. You know, the country artist who's kind of like Post Malone meets like Nashville country. So they're really smart on that level. Like, you know, they're very good grassroots marketers that with not maybe not a massive marketing budget they've made all the
Taylor Bodin (36:48.493)
Yeah, uh-huh.
Taylor Bodin (36:54.36)
Okay.
Totally.
Josh (37:02.252)
right decisions and everybody and maybe it's because of how unique they look or it's the right people talking about it but everybody knows about Speedland and they're very young so kudos to them.
Taylor Bodin (37:09.934)
Yeah.
Taylor Bodin (37:14.37)
Yeah, well, well, I know it was interesting being at Western States this past year of how many people actually were wearing the GS series for Speedlin. I was really I was really impressed, actually. And maybe that's more their their because I was in their neck of the woods. But I mean, you go around. I'm near Boulder. If you're trail running around Boulder, you'll see a pair every now and then. I see Speedlin more than I see normal around here, which is interesting.
Josh (37:24.844)
Hmm. Yeah, I am surprised with it.
Josh (37:38.733)
Yeah.
Josh (37:42.572)
Hmm that is Okay, last and certainly not least. I think I think Norda has the most loyal fans I don't want to use cult because I think Satisfye has usurped the word cult and and turned it into their own thing But they've got a people that they have a cult following of people who love Nordas and celebrate them and there's They've done a pretty special thing from a marketing standpoint, but built around an amazing shoe
Taylor Bodin (37:47.662)
Yeah, totally.
Josh (38:11.256)
an amazing looking shoe. I've never put one on. yeah, the community that built them, everyone you talk to seems to know the names of the owners even. Like they've really done something special with, you know, Nick and Willa. talked to Wolfrunner, he's like, you should talk to Nick and Willa. Anyone I talked to like, Nick and Willa. It's like, what a great thing to have this brand with beautiful shoes. And then the owner, like there's almost like a mom and pop vibe of like, yeah, you should talk to the owners. They're great people.
Taylor Bodin (38:13.026)
Yeah. You need to.
Taylor Bodin (38:28.962)
You really should.
Taylor Bodin (38:38.948)
Yeah, well, yeah, just we were emailing back and forth before going down to the running event and the emails were like, see you at the running event. And then Will is like, somebody has to hold down the bar and I'll be here in Canada. Like very much mom and pa. Yeah, but they, think with all of these brands that we're talking about, their reputation as people.
Josh (38:52.77)
Ha ha ha ha.
Taylor Bodin (39:01.292)
It is just amazing. Like each of these brands, Kevin and Dave, wonderful people. I've never met Killian, but everybody says he's the most amazing person. And I know some of the people he works with great people and like Nick and Willa. Yeah. Know them, met them many times of like, they're just great people and like, don't ask me that. Some somewhere up there. Something that has to do with this.
Josh (39:08.588)
Right. Right.
Josh (39:19.59)
Where are they at in Canada? Where's the headquarters?
That's all right.
America's top hat, that's all I know.
Taylor Bodin (39:31.16)
topography on their outsole, like that kind of design is in there. And so, yeah, the Canadian shield is within a lot of their design. so, yeah, I don't know exactly. Canada, wanna go there, but I just don't know too much about it. Where do I go? We'll find it. But, absolutely, yes. I feel like, as Montreal.
Josh (39:35.258)
really?
Josh (39:48.014)
We'll figure it out. That'll let us know. Someone in the audience will let us know after this.
Taylor Bodin (39:59.918)
I don't even wanna say anything because I feel like I'm gonna be wrong. Yeah, that's okay. I can stomach that. yeah, Nick and Willa, they... I'd be glad to be on it. But yeah, Nick and Willa like Dave and Kevin. They have a ton of experience in the industry. Not all like performance footwear, but...
Josh (40:02.626)
how wrong we are.
Yeah. Yeah. All of a sudden this is an episode of Bad Runners Take Here. Yeah.
Taylor Bodin (40:23.288)
big variety that led them to saying, Hey, I, we want something. We know what we want and it's not out there. So we're going to create it. And they were able to, and that their first shoe was the Norda 01. And so just, man, it, there's a lot to love about it. And from a material standpoint, the three brands that we're talking about basically have all the same materials. Viva Mega Grip, Outsole, a Dyneema, like really durable upper.
Josh (40:29.656)
Hmm. Yeah.
Josh (40:37.464)
People loved that one.
Taylor Bodin (40:53.9)
This midsole is what's really unique about this shoe. It's a Vibram midsole too. And so, which is not on very, this might be the only running shoe that I know of besides the Norda 02 as well that has a Vibram midsole. They do have some for like some of their work shoes and whatnot. But yeah, it's just a shoe that can tick a lot of boxes, extremely durable. Like I end up,
Josh (41:09.646)
Mm-hmm.
Taylor Bodin (41:23.53)
after retiring this from running, I still wear this one every day as a teacher, just because that midsole still feels so good. And so it's just one of those shoes that's gonna be around for a long time. It's gonna last for a long time, give you the experience that you want for a long time. And even after its life, like I could probably replace this outsole, which is a quite durable outsole, that Vibra mega grip. But...
Josh (41:28.642)
Really?
Josh (41:32.779)
Wow.
Taylor Bodin (41:52.812)
Yeah, it's just one of those shoes that feels unique even though there's nothing entirely special about it. And so.
Josh (42:00.206)
Yeah. Yeah. I think the specialness has been their, marketing around it, their photography around it. The, the, don't, and I don't know how they did it, but whoever it was, I don't know, this like 2020, 2021 just blew up and so many people were treating, I was surprised that they didn't have like this formal ambassador program by the time this airs out, we'll have at least a episode with Wolf runner about, know, our bad runners take on.
Taylor Bodin (42:03.778)
Yeah, it looks so good.
Mm-hmm.
Josh (42:25.494)
on ambassador programs and he's talking about Norta a lot in that episode. I'm like, okay, I assume you're an ambassador, a formal ambassador of Norta. He's like, no, I just love him. It's like, okay, well they've accomplished that without ambassador program, but people just everywhere. mean, but it was also people who had a similar aesthetic, just like satisfied, know, certain look of person goes toward that. It feels like it was something similar with Norta. Even if you didn't wear the shoe, you like wore the brand. You know what I mean?
Taylor Bodin (42:34.702)
He just loves Norda. Yeah.
Josh (42:55.126)
like you represented it.
Taylor Bodin (42:55.466)
Exactly. Yeah, totally. And, and you can just, you can kind of look at someone and see if they're like a satisfied person. And if they are, they're probably wearing Norda. And so that's kind of where Norda falls in. Yeah, they do. And I think Nick and Willa, I don't, I can't remember exactly if they both have like fashion industry background, but they have fashion sense, obviously.
Josh (43:06.354)
Hahaha
Josh (43:20.238)
Clearly, yeah.
Taylor Bodin (43:20.832)
of when they're designing a shoe. so, yeah, it's just, it looks so good with, but you wouldn't be able to say exactly why. It just does, right? Right? just.
Josh (43:32.118)
Right, Good colors.
Taylor Bodin (43:34.372)
It just has the, yeah, the colors for sure. And this, this O1 shoe, it'll probably always be part of what they have to offer. think it's $295, which is up there, but if it's gonna last a long time, Andy can wear it as a lifestyle shoe after they come out with new colorways every season, but it's still the same shoe. And I love that about a shoe that will feel
Josh (43:59.392)
Yeah, yeah, that's a good looking shoe.
Taylor Bodin (44:04.14)
looks and feels timeless. And that's a unique thing these days.
Josh (44:06.734)
Okay, so I'm looking at all their colorways and yeah, my goodness. Axolotl is stunning. man, okay. yeah, the price tag, I wasn't expecting that. I've never formally been on the market, but to see the close up of what's happening on the sole is worth the price of admission. That's stunning. So is it just, is it material? Is that price so high? These are just.
Taylor Bodin (44:10.521)
Yeah.
Taylor Bodin (44:26.103)
Mm-hmm. So cool.
Josh (44:35.946)
Is it materials? Is that it?
Taylor Bodin (44:37.28)
It's partly the same idea as what's going on at Speedland. They chose premium, like cut no corners. This is what we want and we know that we'll perform. And so that's part of it. And also it's been, I think it's been 295 since they launched it, maybe 275 originally. And so it hasn't dropped, hasn't gone up.
Josh (44:59.192)
Since it dropped. Okay.
Taylor Bodin (45:06.308)
Well, maybe it did, I guess, $25, but it's still not a... Yeah, it's just that they're extremely quality ingredients and they're put together in a thoughtful enough way to help it perform because we're seeing a lot. There's like, if I tick the box of Dyneema, Vibram and a Supercritical midsole, I could pull like probably half or more of the shoes off my wall that tick off.
Josh (45:17.454)
again.
Josh (45:28.312)
you
Taylor Bodin (45:36.014)
have all those types of ingredients in it, but it's the application and they have the fit. It's going to be slightly more generous in the forefoot, but locked down in the heel and in the midfoot. That's one thing that people love about it. They also have the O2, which is their lower to the ground model, which is basically the same ingredients, just in a lighter package, a little more cushioned around the heel.
Josh (45:36.248)
Yeah.
Josh (45:39.654)
Yeah.
Mmm.
Josh (45:55.468)
Okay.
Josh (46:04.366)
Mm-hmm.
Taylor Bodin (46:04.622)
but you still get the basic idea of like, this is going to be, I, when I choose between a light and fast shoe, I'm a lot of times choosing between the Norda O2 or the normal Shrock that we were already talking about. They're in the very similar category. And so again, all these brands, Norda, Speedland, normal, they all have basically two options that are going to serve just about anybody and they're high quality, high performance, look good, feel good.
Josh (46:18.583)
Yeah.
Taylor Bodin (46:34.153)
Can I show I feel like I've been saying normal is coming out with a new shoe speed lens coming out with a new shoe, and they're all kind of hitting that stage in their careers where they're coming out with a third shoe, and I happen to have the third shoe.
Josh (46:38.091)
Josh (46:49.472)
Hmm. Hmm, I think I did they did they release on Instagram recently I feel like there's like a tag like by the shoelace that says Norda that looks really cool
Taylor Bodin (46:53.987)
This is.
Taylor Bodin (46:57.54)
yeah
Taylor Bodin (47:00.964)
Yeah, yeah. This is the Norda 05. So this is the race day model. And so and they've had a lot of success with their runners in this model. It's super light, still stays true to all all the things that the 01 and the 02 have. It has that Vibram outsole. This is a Mega Grip Elite, which I've never seen that on a shoe before. It has a highly responsive midsole. So this one won't be as
Josh (47:02.498)
Dang it.
Josh (47:06.669)
Okay.
Josh (47:23.694)
Mm-hmm.
Taylor Bodin (47:30.296)
durable from that standpoint of being able to like take it out for years to come basically and have a fairly similar experience. Also does have that really tenacious but light Dyneema upper. And so again, a lot of the same ingredients, just slightly different application and the tweaks to it is what makes it real special. And so, so much lighter. Like this is entering that featherweight even though it's like the moderate stack.
Josh (47:36.92)
Mm-hmm.
Josh (47:52.078)
Is it lighter than the 01, 02? A lot.
Wow.
Taylor Bodin (48:00.662)
And so here I'll try to hold up both of them.
fairly similar in terms of stack and everything, but noticeably much more lightweight performance oriented.
Josh (48:06.347)
Yeah.
Josh (48:13.525)
Where did they cut the weight?
Taylor Bodin (48:13.828)
I haven't, a lot of it will come in this midsole foam, since this is like a Piba foam. PibaX is super light, super airy, highly responsive. The biggest knock on it right now is that it doesn't last as long, which is why you see it in these race day applications because you bring it out for a special occasion and that's totally the shoe.
Josh (48:17.196)
The foam? Okay.
Josh (48:26.499)
Hmm.
Josh (48:33.953)
Okay.
Race day. Yeah.
Josh (48:40.793)
Yeah. man. Okay. I do want to ask about the 03. I almost bought that one. They call it like an approach shoe, I think. No shoelaces. Because if I'm not going for a run, I don't want to have shoelaces. And it's the coolest shoe I've ever seen without shoelaces. I mean, I'm looking at it here. The colorways are sickening. Like they're so good.
Taylor Bodin (48:43.384)
Yeah.
Taylor Bodin (48:49.34)
yeah.
Taylor Bodin (49:00.674)
Mm-hmm.
Taylor Bodin (49:07.537)
yeah.
Josh (49:10.112)
It hurts. So if you're into design, it's the most satisfying thing I've seen today. Hands down. They have this 03G Plus maple. Ugh. What's that?
Taylor Bodin (49:16.256)
If you need a good Christmas present, yeah. that's my favorite one right now. If you're in the market for a good Christmas present to treat yourself. So on a daily basis, I usually wear the O1 just because it's so comfortable. I like it. It's nice enough. I'm a teacher. I don't have to be super dressed up, but it looks nice enough where nobody questions it.
Josh (49:25.366)
Yeah.
Josh (49:43.949)
Yeah.
Taylor Bodin (49:44.95)
In the winter, which is now like it's 14 degrees outside, I put on the 03. And so it has a waterproof outer. It's like it's more of like a neoprene type booty over top. And so super weather resistant keeps you really warm. Like I end up having to take them off at school. have a pair of Hoka slides that I throw on, but it's such an
Josh (49:49.838)
Go.
Josh (49:57.197)
Hmm.
Josh (50:12.046)
Love it. You change shoes every couple hours.
Taylor Bodin (50:14.134)
It's a good looking shoe. Pretty much. It's a great shoe and it has all that same performance. It has that Vibram midsole, Vibram outsole, like great shoe just to put on for a hike, for a walk, for just being out in the elements. You could run in it. I've done like some short trail runs in it to see if it was like a viable trail runner. And you could. It's that secure. Not quite as secure without some laces, but it just slips on. Yeah.
Josh (50:38.19)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. man.
Taylor Bodin (50:44.056)
Highly recommend all the shoes we've talked about so far.
Josh (50:46.624)
Yeah. would say, okay, if I were to think about the high level on all three of these, and this is just a guess, I'm fairly certain, you know, there's not like private equity pressure on any of them to like, you know, for exponential growth. I don't know. mean, Campor could have something like that. I don't know if they're publicly traded and there would be pressure like that. But I say that because it feels like there's enough. Like it feels like there's an abundance in the industry right now.
Taylor Bodin (51:04.141)
Yeah.
Josh (51:15.95)
to where, of course, if they're a one percenter, and when we say that, we mean 1 % of the market, and if Hoka's not gonna have one main competitor, but they're gonna have all these one percenters, we're saying, Norda takes their 1%, Speedland takes their 1%, Normal takes their 3%, however that is, and that's where Hoka will lose market share. Well, right now, it feels like, from a consumer standpoint, it feels like abundance, like there's enough room for all of these brands right now.
Taylor Bodin (51:34.318)
Mm-hmm.
Josh (51:44.556)
They all seem to be carving out their own niche and they're all, at least today's each one has stark raving fans. And I guess we didn't mention Salt Lake connection on normal with Dakota Jones. You know, each one there's like some, there's a level of fun. It's got Killian, you got Dakota. We, you know, we're saying the owner's names of Speedland. So it's like going to the local coffee shop to some degree, but they're making shoes. I mean, like what a massively difficult thing.
Taylor Bodin (51:45.592)
There totally is.
Taylor Bodin (52:12.259)
Yeah.
Josh (52:14.208)
It's, it's a great time to be in. It's a great time to be in trouble.
Taylor Bodin (52:17.964)
Yeah, and I always appreciate Thomas Neuberger, Believe in the Run's founder, of like, he talks about one, the media space, but also the running space in general, and that we're in a day and age where there is space for everybody. And when normal brings their A game, it's only gonna impact Norda positively, probably. And so...
Josh (52:42.7)
Hmm, yes.
Taylor Bodin (52:45.186)
All the shoes that we talked about today are going to be those 1 % shoes probably forever because they're going to be the shoes that appeal to people who are already in that space more so, unless they're doing it from a style standpoint. If you're looking for performance and function, you're likely already a trail runner. You're likely looking for that next piece of something you probably already have in mind, whether it's comfort or overall fit.
Josh (52:57.602)
Yep. Yeah.
Josh (53:03.17)
Mm-hmm.
Josh (53:13.731)
Mm-hmm.
Taylor Bodin (53:14.02)
grip, whatever. And that's how most people are gonna be coming into these brands probably. So, but there's also more brands that we're haven't talked about yet that fit that space. There's also, you know, the 2 % and 5 % brands too, when we, and so, yeah, there's just, there's space for everybody. And I like being a part of this industry because of it. We're going to the running event and we're gonna see a couple brands that I've
Josh (53:19.564)
Yeah. Yeah.
Josh (53:31.203)
Yeah.
Josh (53:36.472)
Yeah.
Absolutely. Yeah.
Taylor Bodin (53:43.96)
just recently heard of, like they're launching this year with similar tendencies of like, we know we want to do this with a shoe. And so we're going to do that. And so, yeah, it's, it's a pretty cool time and space for the running industry as a whole shoes and performance. Everything's just getting better and better. And yeah, it's, I think some of these shows that we've
Josh (53:46.702)
Mm.
Josh (53:54.37)
Hmm.
Josh (54:02.531)
Yeah.
Josh (54:07.427)
Hmm.
Taylor Bodin (54:13.208)
done in the past are just showing us that every brand has really great things coming. We're splitting hairs between a lot of this. And so, yeah, just.
Josh (54:19.608)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, there's fun episodes ahead of us that we've concepted and thought through. Another one of these three show episodes where we're looking at like European brands, like straight up European brands. And, you know, when you come back from TRE, I'm sure there's going to be some fun stuff we could do an episode all about the new stuff that's dropped there and stuff that you've learned. mean, there's so going on. Yeah.
Taylor Bodin (54:28.834)
Mm-hmm.
Taylor Bodin (54:42.914)
Yeah, I mean, that would be a great episode. Yeah, yeah. And it's only increasing, like you said.
Josh (54:50.09)
Yeah, yeah, man. All right, well, let's do this again really soon. Have fun at TRE. By the time this drops, TRE, you might be back home. But either way, I hope you have a good time, and we'll do this again soon.
Taylor Bodin (54:57.73)
Yeah, probably. Yeah, thank you.
Sounds great. Thanks, Josh.
Josh (55:03.404)
Yep, see you.
